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#1 2021-08-04 16:34:05

Don_Smith
Member
From: Chester
Registered: 2017-06-25
Posts: 60

V34 LEAKING SHOWER TRAY

TRIPTYCH'S REFIT CONTINUED:

SHOWER TRAY DRAIN LEAKS

With all the important stuff done, and most of the elective work too, it's time to look at the other issues. One job in particular is the shower tray drain which has a rubberised plug fitting connecting to a hose and pump, and thence overboard. Sadly, the rubber has perished and no longer seals the hole and thus bypasses the hose and leaks into the bilge and neighbouring woodwork.

With showers ashore at marinas it wasn't high on our agenda but it's something I'd like to crack just the same. However, before I do, I'd like to know some more about the local anatomy. I'm afraid, without this knowledge, if I pull out the rubber drain connector it will come off the hose which will be lost and inaccessible, leading to removal of panels and rebuilds. Is there a non-destructive solution?

Triptych is a 1988 build so certain items reach their sell by date, this is one of them; sadly no photo.

Many thanks

Don

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#2 2021-08-04 17:21:50

Charles_Grossie
Committee Member
Registered: 2017-08-10
Posts: 154

Re: V34 LEAKING SHOWER TRAY

Hi Don,
Not had any experience of the shower leaking in Anitra's case. The shower hasn't been used since buying her 4 years ago. I am familiar with the plumbing/pump arrangements, but not in respect of how to go about getting at the underside of the shower tray/basin area. A bit of open heart surgery required me thinks!
Keep us posted.
Thanks.
Charlie.


Victoria 34 Cutter - 'Anitra'

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#3 2021-08-08 18:54:00

Don_Smith
Member
From: Chester
Registered: 2017-06-25
Posts: 60

Re: V34 LEAKING SHOWER TRAY

Thanks, Charlie.
I'll be on the boat during the week, armed with camera to add a few photos. With a bit of luck I might be able to get an endoscope into that area non destructively and get some images from that, too.
Don

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#4 2021-08-16 10:44:04

AlanP_Taylor
Member
Registered: 2018-07-11
Posts: 6

Re: V34 LEAKING SHOWER TRAY

Hi Don
I too have had the tray leaking into the bilge. We find the shower really good to use and it helps keep the heads clean and fresh. I think mine is leaking because it floods over the top of the tray which is quite shallow and does not always keep up with the pump's flow.
Also the keel stepped mast always drips into the bilge in heavy rain. I am trying to resolve that by improving the mast collar but not having much success.
Alan SY Symphony

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#5 2021-08-16 15:36:34

Charles_Grossie
Committee Member
Registered: 2017-08-10
Posts: 154

Re: V34 LEAKING SHOWER TRAY

Hi Alan,

I replaced the mast collar on Anitra just over 2 years ago when I was working on the mast.
The original was pretty much perfect, but I replaced it with another hypalon constructed collar supplied by 'A2 Rigging' (Falmouth from memory).

I suspected that most of the rain water was coming down the mast and into the bilge. This continues to be the case.

I thoroughly cleaned and painted the immediate area in and around the support for the mast foot as can be seen in the photo below.

I'm not 100% sure if the hose in the picture is the hose that comes from the shower basin, but this looks very possible as the sump pump is located in the seat base/locker to the port side of the mast.
1629124527_cimg2523.jpg


Victoria 34 Cutter - 'Anitra'

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#6 2021-10-05 19:25:23

Don_Smith
Member
From: Chester
Registered: 2017-06-25
Posts: 60

Re: V34 LEAKING SHOWER TRAY

Thank you everyone. The leak hunt continues and we have had plenty of wet weather recently to challenge the suspect area.

Charlie, I note that the wood panel just forward of the mast seems to have some water stains like ourselves. In our case there is a slight void underneath that forms a kind of tray where water gathers. I can't get the endoscope in there but when my wife tried drying the area out with the hairdryer I spotted a lot of flickering underneath the woodwork due to water in the slipstream. Some kitchen roll proved the point. This seems to be collecting on the subfloor level of the cabin sole and has left water stains on the wood work. Is it coming from above, trickling down behind the paneling, and from where? It is gathering in the centreline and so is possibly leaking from somewhere above, again in the centreline as the camber of the coachroof would probably shed water elsewhere.

1633451128_charlie_v34_ed.jpg

1633451162_heads_compartment_leak_small.jpg

The blue hose beside the mast base in my case is the freshwater supply to the washbasin in the heads.

When I was down at the boat a few weeks ago, I covered over the area in front of the mast with a tarpaulin, weighted down with rope coils and the inflatable dinghy and checked it out on my next visit. It was still slightly damp down but there was no water so I revised the cover and left some telltale kitchen roll under the tarpaulin. Since then the weather has done its worst and we are going down again tomorrow.

I'm hoping that everything has stayed dry and I'll challenge the area with some plasticine puddles and food dye. The staysail traveler is my chief suspect but there are other areas that need attention as well. So far the two deck vents seem to be blameless and the metal collar for the mast at the coachroof seems well bedded but we'll check that too. As for the hole through the coachroof for the mast, that seems to be well sealed and the gaiter is sound but I'll be leaving some kitchen roll tell tales there too. There is water coming down the mast but I think it's coming down inside it, bypassing the gaiter.

1633457754__mg_2428_suspect_area_small.jpg

This saga is far from over but we should find out some more tomorrow.

More rain on Thursday ready for the next phase of testing but somewhere along the line I'll need a dry spell for repairs.

Best wishes

Don

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#7 2021-10-09 16:11:36

Don_Smith
Member
From: Chester
Registered: 2017-06-25
Posts: 60

Re: V34 LEAKING SHOWER TRAY

I was on the boat on Wednesday this week and did some more testing, this time with food dye in three areas. I squirted 1ml of yellow food dye into one of the halyard openings just above head height and before I went home it had appeared at the base of the mast. See below:

1633791404__mg_2446_mast_dye_test_positive_small_arrow.jpg

There is a drain hole visible on the starboard side of the mast and probably to port as well though I can't see that side as easily. I think that proves water can bypass a well-fitted gaiter and get into the boat. Presumably it's getting in higher up through various slots for halyards, etc. and trickling down. One option may be to re-berth the boat, bows to weather for the winter to see if it reduces that leak or not.

1633792244__mg_2441_suspect_area_covered_small.jpg
I removed the cover from the suspect area on deck.

I then placed some red dye at the forward end of the bronze? mast collar on the coachroof to see if it was still fully bonded to the coachroof and also some blue dye at the top of the camber on the staysail traveler and contained them there in plasticine dams for an hour or so before I hosed all residual dye off the boat. There may be something to report after the next visit. In the meantime the suspect area has been left uncovered.

Don
Triptych
Conwy

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#8 2021-10-31 10:48:33

Don_Smith
Member
From: Chester
Registered: 2017-06-25
Posts: 60

Re: V34 LEAKING SHOWER TRAY

The search drags on. I left the deck area exposed after a visit when everything was dry, hoping that rain would wash some trace of food dye onto my telltales. Alas, no. The rain guage (bucket) I left in the cockpit was nearly dry. We are having plenty of rain now so we'll see what happens on our next trip to Conwy, possibly Monday 1st November.
Don
Triptych

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#9 2021-11-01 11:27:56

Charles_Grossie
Committee Member
Registered: 2017-08-10
Posts: 154

Re: V34 LEAKING SHOWER TRAY

Hi Don.
I was up at Anitra over the weekend winterising various items and washed out the heads/shower area. This allowed me to test if the shower basin sump pump was working properly and it was. I also think that this area of the boat is prone to condensation possibly given that it is directly above the keel area. I too was wondering if there was some water ingress from around the deck mounted ring that has the mast gator mounted, but don't think so as there would be other tell-tale signs.
I'll keep an eye on mine over the winter months to see if there are any signs of water ingress apart from coming down the inside of the mast.
Kind regards,
Charlie.


Victoria 34 Cutter - 'Anitra'

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#10 2021-12-09 22:11:32

Don_Smith
Member
From: Chester
Registered: 2017-06-25
Posts: 60

Re: V34 LEAKING SHOWER TRAY

Well, after a few weeks left alone to do its thing we visited the boat today to check up on any adverse effects of Storm Arwen. There were a few; four boats sank off the town pontoon, one of which is marked by an isolated danger buoy but we got away nearly scot free. The only things I noticed were three fenders that had swung themselves onboard with the wind and one of the dockside fenders had lost two of its three fastenings but they were are put right very quickly.

I looked at the rain guage (bucket) in the cockpit and was disappointed, it was empty, blown over by the winds, but down below water was again gathering in the same place. Furthermore, it had some yellow dye suggesting my earlier tests on the coachroof traveller might be positive. I'll get the photos uploaded tomorrow.

What's the next move? Confirmation I think before I take the staysail traveller to bits. I'll use another colour dye and watch what happens. It's an intermittent problem, the relative wind/rain direction seems to be critical. Then I'll cover it over again until we come out for maintenance in March.

Until tomorrow

Don

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#11 2021-12-11 10:06:41

Jon_Spencer
Member
Registered: 2003-11-23
Posts: 162

Re: V34 LEAKING SHOWER TRAY

Don,

I have noted your leak problem.  When I owned ALBERTINE, my Frances 34 I had similar problems which were caused by rainwater running down the inside of the mast along the various electrical connections.  This was because the "stopper" situated inside the mast just below the external "drain holes" had broken down.  It is possible to obtain a spray can, the contents of which are squirted through the drain holes, which then re-seals the "stopper".  I never found a solutions other than a sponge in the recess at the base of the mast.

Jon.

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#12 2021-12-12 11:42:52

Don_Smith
Member
From: Chester
Registered: 2017-06-25
Posts: 60

Re: V34 LEAKING SHOWER TRAY

Jon,

Whatever comes down our mast trickles into the bilge sump out of the way, so I'm not too concerned with that unless a long lockdown and a heavy rain period coincide. I'm planning to fit an electric pump and float switch next but until then the solution is to pump it out regularly.

The water seems to pool on the GRP subfloor under the heads doorframe on the hinge side where there is no teak flooring fitted. From there it leaves damp marks on the wood nearby. More dye tests around the staysail traveller will be my next move. We come out for maintenance in March so I want to pin point the problem by then.

Once I know where the water is coming in and I've dealt with it, I plan to drill a discrete hole in that sub floor to allow drainage into the bilge, before applying sealant etc. The hole will be invisible and any future leaks won't pool there.

Don

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#13 2021-12-13 15:11:55

Don_Smith
Member
From: Chester
Registered: 2017-06-25
Posts: 60

Re: V34 LEAKING SHOWER TRAY

1639404568_heads_leak_12_2021_overview_small_2.jpg

1639404592_heads_leak_12_2021_ed_small.jpg

This is where the water accumulates on the GRP sub floor under the heads door frame. Because there is a moulding around it there is nowhere for it to go. There is space enough to get a drill bit in and make a drain hole without damaging the wood but before I do that I want to fix all the contributory leaks in the area first.

Don

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#14 2022-03-31 00:23:16

Don_Smith
Member
From: Chester
Registered: 2017-06-25
Posts: 60

Re: V34 LEAKING SHOWER TRAY

Oh, the frustration of leak hunting when it doesn't rain. We haven't had much water coming in for a month or more, just a little dampness and with no traces of telltale food dye - red and blue from two separate sites. Still, it started raining last night and we should have more for a few days. I'll wait and see what happens and let you know in due course.
Don

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