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#1 2023-07-14 22:31:15

Murray_Fraser
Member
From: Weymouth
Registered: 2016-11-22
Posts: 77

Top gudgeon fitting help

Half way across Poole Bay from the Needles and aiming to go outside St Albans Head race on my way to Weymouth I noticed the rudder on my V800 wobbling at the top. It was blowing westerly 16kn and I was beating hard using my tiller pilot.  Bottom line the hull fitting was coming loose, I could see the 2 screw headed bolt heads were loose!
I downed sails and dived under the aft locker after removing calor tanks, spare fuel can and other bits. What I discovered was two bolts held on by just one non locking nut each; unbelievable.  I could not in the swell and out of sight get a spanner onto them. All I could do was tighten the nuts finger tight checking every hour.  I also decided to hand steer under motor to minimise leverage on the fitting.  Not fun!
My reason for highlighting this is that I had checked them over winter but only from outside and all seemed OK. So I encourage you to check these bolts and either add secondary bolts or replace with self lockers.  I now need to replace both the bolts and add proper self locking nuts.  This means lifting the rudder. Help please;  can this be done on the water or do I have to lift the boat out?


VICTORIA 800 Dulcibella

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#2 2023-07-15 18:07:21

Jonathan_Hopper
Member
Registered: 2004-03-23
Posts: 155

Re: Top gudgeon fitting help

Perhaps you could use thread lock on them rather than nylocks - then, so long as the bolts are still there and serviceable, you can do it whilst in the water and see it through till you are next out.

I have taken the rudder off in the water before, but putting it back on could be rather more tricky.

Good thing you spotted it and could deal with it straight away - could have been nasty!

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#3 2023-07-15 20:51:30

Murray_Fraser
Member
From: Weymouth
Registered: 2016-11-22
Posts: 77

Re: Top gudgeon fitting help

Yes, that's a thought Jonathan but I have decided to lift as I need confidence that the bolts are not bent and that the other gudgeons and pins were not damaged.


VICTORIA 800 Dulcibella

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#4 2023-07-16 10:25:54

Bill_Robinson
Member
From: Langkawi, Malaysia
Registered: 2021-06-14
Posts: 103

Re: Top gudgeon fitting help

On my Frances, the lower pintle is threaded at the tip, and has a nyloc nut fitted that prevents the rudder lifting. It can be easily removed by snorkeling. Once this is off, it should be easy enough to lift the rudder off.
I will certainly be checking the nuts in the lazaret.

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#5 2023-07-18 14:49:43

Murray_Fraser
Member
From: Weymouth
Registered: 2016-11-22
Posts: 77

Re: Top gudgeon fitting help

Bill, my rudder is held in place with a split pin in the top pin.  Advantage I guess is that it's easy to lift it off. 
Jonathan, the problem is getting access to the screw headed bolts at the top.  I had thought of replacing the screw headed bolt with a bolt head - easy to get a spanner onto to it - but the shaped gudgeon plate has, I think, a cone shape on the outer face for the bolts.  If so it will not accept a bolt head.


VICTORIA 800 Dulcibella

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#6 2023-07-19 11:30:30

Bill_Robinson
Member
From: Langkawi, Malaysia
Registered: 2021-06-14
Posts: 103

Re: Top gudgeon fitting help

Hi Murray,
It stopped raining long enough for me to get a good look at my rudder pintles and gudgeons.
It is the top one, and not the bottom one, that has the SS nyloc retaining nut fitted.
The gudgeons are cast bronze, drilled for countersunk bolts, but I have hex headed SS bolts fitted. Fortunately all tight and secure. Easy to tighten. Thank you for the heads up.

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#7 2023-07-20 10:57:05

Murray_Fraser
Member
From: Weymouth
Registered: 2016-11-22
Posts: 77

Re: Top gudgeon fitting help

Lifted boat yesterday and removed gudgeon.  One bolt slightly bent but otherwise no collateral damage and replaced both with new washers and Nylock nut all bedded in butyl tape. I decided on countersunk bolts as the fitting offered more support.  The middle and lower gudgeon all fine.  Thank goodness for three fittings.
I will put in new gudgeon inserts this winter, can anyone tell me where to source for a V800; presumably the same as a Francis?


VICTORIA 800 Dulcibella

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#8 2023-07-20 12:18:26

Bill_Robinson
Member
From: Langkawi, Malaysia
Registered: 2021-06-14
Posts: 103

Re: Top gudgeon fitting help

I made new bushings using Vesconite for my Frances 26. This is an excellent material for this purpose, and very easy to machine.

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#9 2023-07-20 18:40:40

Murray_Fraser
Member
From: Weymouth
Registered: 2016-11-22
Posts: 77

Re: Top gudgeon fitting help

Good skills Bill but a bit beyond my tools or skills.


VICTORIA 800 Dulcibella

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#10 2023-07-20 20:38:04

Simon_Dewing
Member
From: Torquay / Texas
Registered: 2022-08-04
Posts: 60

Re: Top gudgeon fitting help

Not sure what size your gudgeons are but loads of Vesconite bushings readily (and cheaply) available in relatively small sizes for the rods in 3D printers.
You may find there is something available that will fit (or nearly so and be readily modified).
e.g. https://www.vesconite.com/3d-printer-bushings/order/

Otherwise probably a local machine shop could knock some up in few minutes.

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