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#1 2023-09-24 13:31:33

Murray_Fraser
Member
From: Weymouth
Registered: 2016-11-22
Posts: 83

Genoa for V26/800 cutter

Has anyone tried flying a 100/120 genoa on a cutter.  I have an asymetric but difficult to handle singlehanded and no good upwind.  In wind below 9/10 I find my yankee c. 12.6sq m and staysail c.6sq m are insufficient.  I estimate I can fly a c. 24/25 sq m genoa - luff 9.6 and foot 4.0.  Views please.


VICTORIA 800 Dulcibella

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#2 2023-09-24 20:44:40

Simon_Dewing
Member
From: Torquay / Texas
Registered: 2022-08-04
Posts: 61

Re: Genoa for V26/800 cutter

Murray,

I have similar problems with my F26, (but I have not yet tried the new asymmetric which came with the boat)
I guess you have seen all the correspondence on the Chuck Paine site.
Chuck's view was that bringing the clew just aft of the cap shrouds (~110%) was perfect.

Mithril's genoa (~140/150%) is way too big, wont tack properly and interferes with the staysail.
Previous owner basically sailed her as a sloop.
Its still a pain to tack in light winds and shape is horrible when part rolled in heavier weather.
I probably should have tried her with just the staysail, based on comments from her first owner.

My mast is also the taller variant (as I suspect were the masts on the V800's) and he did not recommend increasing the jib's luff length over the standard (~8.8m?).

That said mine has a luff length of 9.6m which is longer than normal and the foil could take a slightly longer luff length (up to 10m).
I should have a second hand yankee (overlap unknown but based on picture of it being used by its previous owner , greater than the standard  80%) coming to try when I make it back to the UK.
My plan was to experiment with this and then make a decision on what to order new.
I will let you know how it goes.

Simon

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#3 2023-09-27 18:35:42

Murray_Fraser
Member
From: Weymouth
Registered: 2016-11-22
Posts: 83

Re: Genoa for V26/800 cutter

Thanks Simon.  I missed Chuck's comment re cap shrouds so measured it a few days back.  Works out at 390cm at the horizontal from furler on bowsprit giving me c. 111% overlap. On a 960cm luff and depending on leach length I reckon this would give me c. 18.5 Sq m, just about the same as the Yankee and staysail combined but allowing me to add the staysail on upwind/close reach and of course a much more effective increase in downwind  foresail area of c. 50%.
If I can find a used genoa to fit furling groove and size I think this might be worth doing.  Use it say winds less than 10 knots true?

Last edited by Murray_Fraser (2023-09-27 18:36:42)


VICTORIA 800 Dulcibella

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#4 2023-09-27 20:49:07

Jonathan_Hopper
Member
Registered: 2004-03-23
Posts: 157

Re: Genoa for V26/800 cutter

Murray - I am not sure how different the dimensions are on the 800.

Francesca (F26 cutter) currently has luff: 8.7   Foot: 4     Leach:7.8     I reckon that is about 15.7m2.    The tack is on a strop which brings it up to the pullpit, for 2 reasons - on the F26 the pullpit is inside the forestay and the bi nav light is on the pullpit, -  much lower and it covers the lense.   Not usually a problem, but can be an issue.   A higher tack gives better visibility.   The cloth is thicker than the one it replaced, and has a foam luff for considerably better reefing.    The old sail is temporarily bent on, but will measure it over the winter sometime.

The clew comes to just behind the shrouds.  It's high enough to give reasonable visibility when heeled, but not so high as to lose too much sail area.

It replaced a lighter cloth sail which became baggy some time ago, which had a full length luff, but came back to about the same place aft of the shrouds.   With no foam luff this sail was grim when reefed.    However, the longer luff makes a noticeable difference, and have been looking at buying something in between the 2 sails for better performance.

The starting point for me is trying to work out exactly where the best place is for the tack, and then to maximise the luff.   The clew feels about right.   

I have increased the size of the staysail as well, and this has a fairly heavy cloth for its size.   This, for me, has made it more usable in more moderate winds, and in stronger airs the genoa can be rolled up sooner (probably not downwind though).   In theory perhaps if I get a new genoa it can go back to a slightly lighter cloth as it may not take the hammering now than the original did.   The foam luff will be a must.

If you are down this way, you are more than welcome to borrow one.

Hope there is something here that is of help, and I would be interested to hear how you get on.

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#5 2023-09-28 10:06:13

Murray_Fraser
Member
From: Weymouth
Registered: 2016-11-22
Posts: 83

Re: Genoa for V26/800 cutter

That's interesting Jonathan. My pulpit is scooped at the bow and my nav lights are set back and below the pulpit  so less of an issue.
Can you tell me the cloth weight you use on the Genoa and suggestion on changes to this if any.  Remind me where are you moored?


VICTORIA 800 Dulcibella

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#6 2023-09-28 19:07:23

Jonathan_Hopper
Member
Registered: 2004-03-23
Posts: 157

Re: Genoa for V26/800 cutter

Murray - my current white set are 6.4oz.   They are 2007 sails that have worn well - even now it is difficult to justify replacing them!

New quote is similar.   Don't know what the old one is - I'll ask the sailmaker when I next see him.    It looks lighter to me and is pretty baggy.   Both sails have done similar miles/conditions and years on the forestay, so will probably stick with the 6.4, although no doubt cloth has got better over the years.

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